Staying near Sāvatthī … Then Ven. Bhūmija, emerging from his seclusion in the evening, went to Ven. Sāriputta. On arrival, he exchanged courteous greetings with him. After an exchange of friendly greetings & courtesies, he sat to one side. As he was sitting there, he said to Ven. Sāriputta, “Friend Sāriputta, there are some contemplatives & brahmans, teachers of kamma, who declare that pleasure & pain are self-made. There are other contemplatives & brahmans, teachers of kamma, who declare that pleasure & pain are other-made. Then there are other contemplatives & brahmans, teachers of kamma, who declare that pleasure & pain are self-made & other-made. And then there are still other contemplatives & brahmans, teachers of kamma, who declare that pleasure & pain, without self-making or other-making, are spontaneously arisen. In this case, friend Sāriputta, what is the Blessed One’s doctrine? What does he teach? Answering in what way will I speak in line with what the Blessed One has said, not misrepresent the Blessed One with what is unfactual, and answer in line with the Dhamma so that no one whose thinking is in line with the Dhamma will have grounds for criticism?”
“The Blessed One, my friend, has said that pleasure & pain are dependently co-arisen. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. One speaking in this way would be speaking in line with what the Blessed One has said, would not be misrepresenting the Blessed One with what is unfactual, and would be answering in line with the Dhamma so that no one whose thinking is in line with the Dhamma would have grounds for criticism.
“Whatever contemplatives & brahmans, teachers of kamma, who declare that pleasure & pain are self-made, even that is dependent on contact. Whatever contemplatives & brahmans, teachers of kamma, who declare that pleasure & pain are other-made, even that is dependent on contact. Whatever contemplatives & brahmans, teachers of kamma, who declare that pleasure & pain are self-made & other-made, even that is dependent on contact. Whatever contemplatives & brahmans, teachers of kamma, who declare that pleasure & pain, without self-making or other-making, are spontaneously arisen, even that is dependent on contact.
“That any contemplatives & brahmans—teachers of kamma who declare that pleasure & pain are self-made—would be sensitive to pleasure & pain otherwise than through contact: That isn’t possible. That any contemplatives & brahmans—teachers of kamma who declare that pleasure & pain are other-made… self-made & other-made… who declare that pleasure & pain, without self-making or other-making, are spontaneously arisen—would be sensitive to pleasure & pain otherwise than through contact: That isn’t possible.”
Now it so happened that Ven. Ānanda overheard this conversation between Ven. Sāriputta & Ven. Bhūmija. Then he went to the Blessed One and, on arrival, having bowed down to him, sat to one side. As he was sitting there he reported the entire conversation to the Blessed One.
(The Blessed One said:) “Excellent, Ānanda. Excellent. One rightly answering would answer as Ven. Sāriputta has done.
“I have said, Ānanda, that pleasure & pain are dependently co-arisen. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. One speaking in this way would be speaking in line with what I have said, would not be misrepresenting me with what is unfactual, and would be answering in line with the Dhamma so that no one whose thinking is in line with the Dhamma would have grounds for criticism.
“Whatever contemplatives & brahmans, teachers of kamma, who declare that pleasure & pain are self-made, even that is dependent on contact. Whatever contemplatives & brahmans, teachers of kamma, who declare that pleasure & pain are other-made… self-made & other-made… without self-making or other-making, are spontaneously arisen, even that is dependent on contact.
“That any contemplatives & brahmans—teachers of kamma who declare that pleasure & pain are self-made—would be sensitive to pleasure & pain otherwise than through contact: That isn’t possible. That any contemplatives & brahmans—teachers of kamma who declare that pleasure & pain are other-made… self-made & other-made… without self-making or other-making, are spontaneously arisen —would be sensitive to pleasure & pain otherwise than through contact: That isn’t possible.
“When there is a body, pleasure & pain arise internally with bodily intention as the cause; or when there is speech, pleasure & pain arise internally with verbal intention as the cause; or when there is intellect, pleasure & pain arise internally with intellectual intention as the cause.
“From ignorance as a requisite condition, then either of one’s own accord one fabricates the bodily fabrication on account of which that pleasure & pain arise internally, or because of others one fabricates the bodily fabrication on account of which that pleasure & pain arise internally. Either one fabricates alert the bodily fabrication on account of which that pleasure & pain arise internally, or one fabricates unalert the bodily fabrication on account of which that pleasure & pain arise internally. [Similarly with verbal & intellectual fabrications.]
“Now, ignorance is bound up in these things. From the remainderless fading & cessation of that very ignorance, there no longer exists (the sense of) the body on account of which that pleasure & pain internally arise. There no longer exists the speech… the intellect on account of which that pleasure & pain internally arise. There no longer exists the field, the site, the dimension, or the issue on account of which that pleasure & pain internally arise.”
Origin URL: https://www.dhammatalks.org/suttas/SN/SN12_25.html